Most writers don't delve into the finite details of the canon chracters, much less their own characters. This tends to make their OC insignifigant. Others over-compensate and feel that this OC must be the complete yin to a canon character's yang..... thus creating the evil known as the Mary Sue, because we all know (even if we don't want to own up to it) that PoT, while featuring some real moves, is actually very, very exaggerated. It isn't just bad writing though, it can also be bad characterization that creates Mary Sues.

However, OC's don't just have to be about girls. For example, I'm actually mid-(not posted)fic, where Rinko is actually Ryoma's stepmother. We all know the reputation that Nanjiroh is given, and I'm uing a dying Olympic Champion, as his biological mother to explain Ryoma's *unrealistic* ability in tennis. Note the dying part, is purely for the angst, an element of writing that I've come to love. In the midst of this, I've managed to create another 2 OC's, one his mother's former coach, and the other, the coaches son to give Ryoma a bit flesh to his history. In my case, the OC gives background, and will eventually help him mature, not as a love interest, who will remain a slightly OoC Sakuno, but as a brother/childhood friend. However, before I even post a chapter, I do intend to make sure my OC's aren't too cliche or too bland.

Dragona2007, having always tried to write as well as I could.Apr 27th 2007, 11:20pm #2

Tell me when you get that one up. I'd love to read it.

A.E.Apr 28th 2007, 1:01pm #3

A.E., can't wait.Apr 28th 2007, 9:52pm #5

I'm currently writing a TezukaOC fic (yeah the romance element), where she leaves for Germany and he stays in Japan. It only has one OC currently, but I'm developing the plot (which is a horrid thing to do) such that more OCs will be appearing in the fic, and I will be using Ann (a canon character!) in later introductions. Comments? For one, I can take critism pretty well. =)

Though sometimes I do wonder, why are OCs Mary Sues when the canon characters are already quite unbelievable? Oh well.

Lizzie, signing off.Jul 20th 2007, 7:23am #6

Mary Sues...are.... I've yet to make that topic for it! I'll do that now...

A.EJul 21st 2007, 11:35pm #7

About the neoprint, I have to say the some of the Regulars -Fuji especially- have been on Tezuka's trail for sometime (Fuji tailed him, goodness knows what Inui has done o.O). I am breaking the connection in the next chapter, with only a small reference to Rae and introduction of a new OC (minor role) to have the all-famous Atobe-Tezuka match. That's gonna so kill me because I can't really do tennis descriptions?

Advice greatly appreciated!! (I've been wanting advice on this for weeks) :D

Lizzie, signing off.Jul 22nd 2007, 1:55am #8

The main problem that OCs face, in my opinion, is their bad reputation. So many people who write don't use them well that when people see that a story has some in it they immediately shy away. There's a lot of stigma that goes with them, especially the girls. Half the time people are already pointing fingers and crying Mary Sue before they even read the story. For OCs to become more accepted there need to be more examples of good ones otherwise things will go nowhere.

As for your assertion that most PoT writers are immature I have to say that I agree with you, it's the truth. The plots are shallow, the writing is ungrammatical, and sadly the OCs often leave a bit to be desired but if you look at the authors profiles for some of these people the becomes obvious. More than half of them are in middle school, asking for intricate plot and deep characterization from someone in the 11-13 age group is like asking an elementary school student to dunk a basketball on a regulation sized hoop, you're almost certainly going to end up disappointed. That's one of the reasons I waited before I started writing, I knew I had good ideas but I knew that my writing at the time would not do them any semblance of justice. I wanted to give my writing time to mature into something that people would want to read, these kids didn't do that. I'm not saying that I'm even close to perfect now I know I have more to learn but after several advanced high school english courses I'm certainly better prepared to handle things, like flames as you mentioned, then I was when I was twelve.

I tend to use OCs in a more supportive role, it's rare that they are ever really the true focus of a story that I write. I do however love AUs. Their rep isn't as bad as OC centrics but they can be just as hard to balance. I just started writing one called the Butterfly Effect that is a Sakuno centric AU. It's probably going to end up having a fair amount of OCs because of the new situation I'm putting the main character in and I've been doing my best to avoid cliches and I think that I've been successful so far but it's always nice to get feedback even if it's telling me I need some work. I'm one of those rare writers that actually likes constructive criticism and will take it in and try to learn from it.

I will leave with this parting remark. When an author puts out a new book in a series they almost always add new characters, so why can't we?

Anna NigmaFeb 26th 2008, 8:58am . Edited Feb 26th 2008, 9:02am #9

One huge problem with the OC story bad rep is because ANY good writing takes time. And if a writer posts their work while the story is still in the process of being written, then each chapter will come out, at best, once every two weeks. Meanwhile, the multitude of other writers who don't care that much about quality and length post hundreds of chapters within that span of time, effectively burying the good fics. So there's really not much that can be done about the OC story rep unless all such OC writers decided not to post their stories until they could guarantee that the chapters would be posted at regular intervals. A further suggestion to keep the stories on the just in list longer, also, is to post on weekdays and in the morning, when the fic production rate is lower.

I will leave with this parting remark. When an author puts out a new book in a series they almost always add new characters, so why can't we?

Thank you!

A.EFeb 26th 2008, 6:54pm #10

I must admit, I'm often one of those prejiduced against OC's. I mean, I've read one or twoo good ones in my entire time on Fanfiction.net, But I've run into so many bad one that I'm rather wary where an original character is concerned.

......Not that I have any right to talk, I can't even write an OC fic, all my attempts turned out to be Mary Sues and only one of them is even posted (one which I admit is a Mary Sue fic). I'm probably speakign for quite a few people when I say, a lot of us really have no idea how to make a good OC fic, or maybe even a a Mary Sue fic that doesn't make others' eyes bleed.

I do hope however, that your contributions can teach us all a little more bout how things hsould be done.

I don't know, I only write canon, my reason being I believe that's what fanfictions are - to write according to canon. If it's OC, for me it's no different than original fiction. But that's just me. XD And anywayz, I write fanfictions because I love the anime so much and I want to explore more on it, so ya, I only write canon. I don't disapprove AU though.

So...no serving ladies at the hamburger counter? All het pairings involve Sakuno and/or An? No new opponents to play? We repeat old moves again in a different order under different circumstances to "see" what happens? Canon is canon, fine, so long as it's in-character, and PoT is big enough to do things without needing too many OCs...but it better be pretty good to make it worth reading (no offense).

Haha, none taken. You can write canon, and you can still bring in new characters, right? Just don't change their personalities and feelings for other characters would be fine.

I haven't written PoT fanfic before though.

But if people didn't change character's feelings for one another, half the fandom would be lost!

And anyway, there are different interpretations of how characters feel. Is it canon to write silver pair just because there may be some hints or should we stick to platonic friendship every time?

And what about all the crack pairs that work in their own odd way. I once read a great, very serious AtobexYuuta fic that really worked. Should we get rid of all of that?

This is very subjective indeed!

To each his own, I guess. But I do agree some AUs and OCs are good, just maybe I prefer reading ICs. Lolz~

As long as you have some sort of hint or support for your interpretation and don't make the character act in a way that their personality wouldn't usually let them, then it ought to be legit. The rest just depends on your skill as a writer in making the story appeal to the readers.

This I totally agree! For me, that's a form of IC too. As long as you have a reasonable explanation for their drastic(or subtle) change in personalities, then it's totally fine.

Same. I like it when fics build up what might otherwise be considered crack pairings- if you just throw it in straight away it won't work.

Frankly speaking, I find where OC characters are added, the OC either changes waaayyyy to dramatically halfway through the story, or the real character practically becomes an OC

Fanfic regular person, i really have to agree with you. other OC fics sometimes makes the canon characters OOC (out of character), and they're one of the things that i don't really read. though i admit that i myself made a canon character OOC, but i was still new... especially my on-going fic in the first few chapters, but i already fixed it, i think. heheheh...

yeah, it's as if they're not them. that's really a no-no. Why would we even change their personality SO MUCH? we like them as them, not the total opposite. but i think, at least, we should show their hidden side...

Yea, my first PoT fanfic turned out to be a disaster. I suppose 'showing their hidden side' would be quite interesting, and I've read fanfictions where the author made up pasts for Fuji or Tezuka. And sometimes it's actually okay, when their explaining or doing something related to the made up past and be a bit OOC, but the problem is when they take that out of character personality and put it somewhere unreasonable (like at school).

Ah and, most people will probably call me an idiot at this, but what is a 'Mary-sue OC'?

A Mary-Sue OC is an OC who is a Mary-Sue, which has been previously defined.

Yes, made up pasts do sometimes make the characters OOC. That's why I avoid trying to create a back story, and just try to work with what information I have available to me. I take apart details I've been given and try to figure out what might have happened to make them that way. I think that's much more fun and challenging than making my own random back story for them.

I agree with you on this. Forgive me if I haven't really grasped what you've meant.

I've been on this site for some time now, and I've watched the fandoms slowly die and wither into a bunch of OC fiction archive. I don't see why some OC fics are getting higher ratings than others. Most of the OC fics I've read here (minus two heartbreaking OC fics here) involve OOCness of the canon characters as well as Sue-ism. The worst part of all is that the review system isn't being used to its maximum with the reviewers simply saying 'Yes, this is great', 'pls update', 'i luv it. update soon pls', and other reviews. Sadly, I think this is the root cause of bad stories becoming worse. With only praise coming in and rarely any critique...no wonder why the slightest hint of critique is considered a flame already.

Perhaps a way to stop this kind of thing from happening is to give well-rounded critique as much as possible - not only one-lined reviews of half-hearted praise. Perhaps if people start giving critique, the writers here will soon get used to it and learn to improve? What do you think? We need reviewers to pose as a good example for other reviewers.

It bothers me these days to see such short reviews with no single trace of criticism. It almost give the feeling that the writers are the slaves and the reviewers are those in command. I guess that the reason we post here is for recreational purposes, but I guess we must also find a way to improve for the better, right? I know there are some writers that only want reviews no matter what they contain. I think that they are simply content with having a higher review count than the other writers; they're not even looking at the quality of their works. Like I've always said, their writing style will remain the same. I doubt if they'll ever find a chance to improve.

So...I guess what I'm trying to say doesn't make sense. I feel more comfortable if I summarize it a bit. x3 In short: The writers are being encouraged only by reviews of praise, not criticism, and that will to them not improving. Also, the reviewers must find it a responsibility to at least comment on the story rather than just saying 'nice', 'i lyk it. continue plx', and other similar things. It wouldn't be advantageous of them as well if they're supporting bad quality fics. We the writers here write to please don't we? So I guess we shouldn't really be that conscious of reviews. So...what's important is the quality of the review?

I'm sorry, but I think I'm lost now. @_@ So, high quality critique + open-minder writer = a high quality, improving story. And I think I've gone out of the topic already. I feel like I've been going around in circles. So my main point here is that...the reviewers aren't helping much these days in the improvement of our writers, so we should set an example by giving more critique but saying it in a kind way? (Probably like saying, 'There's always room for improvement. Don't worry.)

I apologize for the wild chase. My mind isn't doing well these days. I sincerely apologize. w//w

Ah, you raise a good point. I recently read a OC fanfiction which....... let's just say it was so bad - it was almost laughable.

There were a couple of reasons for this, the author blabbered on and didn't really seem to have a plot of the story, both characters were clearly a bit off (and from what I've read would probably fit under the definition of 'Mary-sue') with no consistency - and she even changed their names halfway, and the original characters were OOC. This really wasn't hard to pick up after the first few lines.

However - before I reviewed (saying the above points in a more....peaceful...-I don't think that's the right word, ah well- manner) I looked at some of the other reviews that the author had received. And, as per your point Terry-May, many of them said things like: 'luv your story, continue!' 'great work!' 'waiting for the next update!' however along with these came reviews like: 'this is horrible, delete it' 'this sucks' 'your a horrible writer, go get better than start another one'.

Which brings me to my next point - while good reviews can have a negative impact (when in a large quantity) on the author therefore stunting their writing abilities, flames like this probably have a impact of simliar - if not more - impact on the writer - of course in a negative way. They don't say how the author can improve, nor what was wrong this the story.

So this leads to the discussion of the kinds of reviews a person can write up, right? From what I see, there are five types.

A FLAME - a message that gives neither praise nor critique; SPAM-PRAISE - a message that shows mild appreciation of the fic, usually requesting for the author to update and usually written in chat speak; CONSTRUCTIVE CRTICISM - a review that contains a part praise, a part critique, and a part suggestion, which is usually the kind of review we are expected to write; PURE PRAISE - a review whose content contains praise and is written in a more decent manner than that of SPAM-PRAISE; and PURE CRITIQUE - a review that points out the flaws, errors, and the like of the fic probably accompanied with an encouraging sentence.

So this means that reviewers should also be taught a thing or two just as we teach the writers here. In a sense, these two are the same, in terms of the effects they cause, that is. It wouldn't lead to any progress with the writer.

Hmm, on the side note, do you think you could give me a link to that fic? ^^ I was thinking of cheering the author up a little.

Ah......you have really thought this through huh? O.o

As for the story, it wasn't a PoT fic - It was 'Lord of the Rings'. Er, I haven't got the link, but I shall try and look for it agian - if I find it, I'll tell you.

Umm...have I? Eep...

Oh. I see. Well, I'm still interested, so I'll just be waiting for the link if ever you find it, but if it's too much of a burden, just tell me. ^^

Hah, yes, that's what I meant. And quite frankly, it's about the level of experience and maturity of Prince of Tennis writers and readers. If, indeed, more and more people learned to leave constructive criticism, then that would help, but no matter what, there will always be less mature reviewers out there, it just depends on how often the mature ones out number them.

Perhaps if FF.net were to instituted a word minimum for reviews...

Yeah, I agree. There will always be stubborn, mildly immature people, don't you think?

And I love that idea. If there was a minimum, the reviewing world would be a better place and stories would progress. ^^

I agree, it would be a good idea. But what limit do you guys reckon? I have seen one or two PoT stories which are so good that I have only one minor piece to comment on - so it was actually quite short.

you guys are right about the reviews (needed to help the writer to improve) but , what if you have anything more to say or suggest? what kind of review would you give? i'm just curious on what you guys would give if ever that happens.

i mean. what if you DON'T have any more to say or suggest...?

I know I'm wandering in, but I wanted to join the discussion at the right time, preferably when I've something to say.

I should say, this word minimum thing could get tricky for most of the reviewers. What I feel is that if you only can comment on the story about how it was, then it's better not to do it. This could bring down the total number of reviews, but those few reviews that contain criticism are better in comparision to many one-liners.

I can say for myself, my reviews have never been one-liners, even if they only elaborate on the obvious. Most of the time, I'll be stating my own opinions about the characters.

Seems like I don't have much to add though... Tell me if I'm not doing justice to this topic.

Well, we could take the loser's way and end up writing a review similar to a love letter. x3 Or, we could be serious and pin down the writer on all her mistakes. Then, we could also write suggestions on how she can improve, correct her on some facts that she probably didn't know and just made up, or just flame away. (PS: I don't recommend the last option. It can only end up with wounded egos - either on the critic's side or on the writer's side.)

I don't really think that every fic is perfect. There _has_ to be some inconsistency some part. Just as nobody is perfect, no fic is perfect as I have already stated. A writer may make a short mistake on spelling, grammar usage, inconsistency of tenses, improper punctuation and capitalization, incorrect pluralization, and more. Then, there are also other things to comment on like the plot, the characters, how the story is developing, the pacing of the story, how in-character the canon characters are, the facts she put up like incorrect birthdays, unknown siblings, their system of education, when school starts, etc.

Just remember that a review is made up of one part praise, one part critique, and one part suggestion. ^^ Oh, this doesn't come from me. I read it from the Literature Forum on Gaia.

And to comment on the word minimum, I think it's a rather good idea. If reviewers don't have anything smart to say, then they shouldn't. Besides, having less reviews will teach some writers (and I admit I am one of these) not to be review-centric. The number of reviews we receive are not equal to the number of readers we have.

That's all I can say. x3 Just as Sakaki would say, 行ってよし!

Eventually, I'll create that contructive criticism topic.

For now, a word minimum would be really small, I should think. Something the equivelent of forcing you to write at least two sentences.

Terry-May, even I'm review-centric. I may have made the suggestion in the first place, but like you, I also need to learn that. (What do you exaclty mean in those fonts, Ive no idea what Sakaki could say, I haven't finished watching the whole series)

We can write the review in anyway we like - it all depends on the reviewer. But what I feel is that by implementing the word minimum, (suppose it is of two sentences, like A.E said) the reviewers will only write more elaborately, or won't give the review at all. It wouldn't exactly help in increasing the number of constructive criticism.

Let's see what happens in the new topic that A.E is starting. Maybe, my confusion regarding all this might get sorted out there.

By the way, Terry-May, you added me as a favourite author. Thanks a lot. I know I'm asking for too much, but if you have read Alluring Mirages, just give me an opinion of how it is ( if you have any suggestions, please tell me) It is this story where all I got for reviews was that it is interesting and I should update.

I hope I've made sense above. I repeat, feel free to tell me if I'm not doing justice to the discussion.

To start, Sakaki said something along the lines of 'Go ahead'. Ahehe.

Well, I'm glad that I'm not the only person that's review-centric. I was really stuck with the review number philosophy ever since I posted my second fic. Let's just say that this forum made me change my mind, and I'm glad for that. I'm tired of feeling underrated and unappreciated just because I haven't received reviews on my stories.

You make a good point there, but in my opinion, people h